Rampant Stupidity

Not so recently, I bought tickets through TicketMaster. I had a whole rant that I was going to post, but I've decided that I'm just going to post the BBB process complaint and then post my thoughts and what I plan to do afterward and why.

"" = equals some modicum of privacy for me (although it ain't hard to figure out who I am) and the person from whom I received the company's boiler-plate response, or some dumb mistake which I feel would embarass the BBB.

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Complaint Description

IAC, doing bus as Ticketmaster, which operates www.ticketmaster.com, is not properly disclosing all costs associated with ticket purchases before such purchases are made. I had ordered 3 tickets. The Purchase page showed seat locations, the delivery options & costs of the tickets. There was no mention of any other fees associated with the purchase. Agreeing to the price & selecting the delivery method (Regular Mail) I clicked Purchase. The next page was for payment info. There was still no mention of the fees. I also didn't notice that my delivery method had changed from Regular Mail to TicketFast ($2.50 fee). After purchase, the price quoted on the Purchase Page for 3 tickets had increased by 26% of the $49.50 ticket price by the addition of delivery fee + a $10.50, 'Convenience Charge,' per ticket. There was also an order processing fee of $4.15 not previously mentioned or noticed. I've understood that they do have the right to charge these fess, but such fees must be disclosed & enumerated on the purchase order, before the trans is concluded or the service is performed. Attempted suits have been made, & lost, regarding their practice of charging such fees & the possibility of lowering them (Band Pearl Jam vs. Ticketmaster [or equiv).They should, be held accountable for disclosing them, openly & on the purchase price page, before the purchase is fait accompli. I'm waiving the processing fee, as service was provided. Had it been properly disclosed, I wouldn't have objected.

Complaint Summary

IAC, doing bus as Ticketmaster, which operates www.ticketmaster.com, is not properly disclosing all costs associated with ticket purchases.

Resolution Sought

Refund of undisclosed fees.

Additional Information
Date Problem First Occurred:	11-17-2007
Product or Service:	computerized ticketing sales
Model Name or Number:	""
Date Purchased:	11-17-2007
Order Number:
Amount Paid:

Company's Response

Dear Mr. "":
We are in receipt of your request for a refund. Thank you for your patience while we researched the facts relevant to your transaction. As you may recall, you are requesting that Ticketmaster refund a purchase that you placed on our website. Ticketmaster strives to provide excellent customer service and sincerely regrets that an error apparently occurred in connection with your transaction. We welcome this opportunity to explain why your refund request is being denied. During the Internet ordering process, all information is re-confirmed. This confirmation includes venue, day, date, time, and number of tickets, itemized and total charges. Before a consumer can complete their transaction, the consumer must agree to our Terms of Use. By proceeding with your order, you acknowledged that you would abide by those terms. Further, under our Purchase Policy, subcategory Refunds and Exchanges, it clearly states that before purchasing tickets, carefully review your event and seat selection. Policies set forth by our clients, including venues, teams and theaters; prohibit Ticketmaster from issuing exchanges or refunds after a ticket has been purchased or for lost, stolen, damaged or destroyed tickets. I sincerely regret to learn that you were disappointed with your experience utilizing Ticketmaster. However, since you agreed to our Terms of Use prior to completion of the transaction, we respectfully decline to grant your request for a refund as we do not believe that Ticketmaster was at fault in this instance. Thank you for the opportunity to respond and formally address your concerns. We trust this explanation will be satisfactory to fully resolve this matter. Sincerely, "" Consumer Support Specialist

Initial Response Summary

Thank you for your patience while we researched the facts relevant to your transaction.

Consumer's Rebuttal

Rebuttal - Posted 11-28-2007

"Convenience Charges and Order Processing Fees
Tickets purchased on Ticketmaster.com are typically subject to a per ticket convenience charge and a non-refundable per order processing fee. In many cases, delivery prices will also be owed." [From their ToU policy]

There is no disclosure of the percentage or fixed amount charged. Whether agreed to or not, there is no way to determine the cost of those charges prior to purchase without the disclosure on the purchase page.

Complaint is directed at parent company (IAC), not TicketMaster.

Company's Final Response
Final Response - Posted

We are in receipt of your complaint. We understand that your complaint was directed to IAC, but the charges in question are set in place by Ticketmaster. As previously stated you are requesting that Ticketmaster refund a purchase that you placed on our website. During the Internet ordering process, all information is re-confirmed. By proceeding with your order, you acknowledged that you would abide by our terms. Since you agreed to those terms we respectfully decline to grant your request for a refund as we do not believe that Ticketmaster was at fault in this instance. We trust this explanation will be satisfactory to fully resolve this matter. Sincerely, "" -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was never interested in receiving the entire purchase price, just the price of the undisclosed amount.

Their practice is the equivalent of a moving company saying, "There will be a transportation fee of an amount that we cannot disclose because we don't know how much it will be." After you've already signed the work order saying that you'll pay it, they have your stuff. Then they charge you extortionist fees in order to get your stuff back.

That kind of practice has been determined in court (for moving companies, at least) to be tantamount to fraud because they did not disclose the fixed amount, percentage amount, or amount to be charged per mile on the contract before signing. TicketMaster also does not disclose a percentage amount or fixed rate for their fee.

I'm very close to pursuing a class action lawsuit not only for the amount of my fees, but for the total amount of fees charges by TicketMaster since the inception of their online ticket purchasing outlet for tickets purchased through that outlet. Why would I start there? Because, when buying a ticket through previous outlets (i.e. at the venue, licensed outlets like the Wherehouse, etc.) there was always a disclosure of the amount to the customer before the customer had payed for the tickets. Up until they made the purchase, the customer had the right to cancel the transaction due to knowing the amount of the fee. In the case of the online purchases, there is no monetary disclosure until after the purchase is complete.

How much is this likely to hurt them? Well, my fees were around $10.25 per ticket. Multiply that by millions of ticket since the inception of the online venue. The lawyer is likely to be happy with 3% of that as a fee, but against such a large company it might be as high as 10%. As first party, I'll be happy with 1.4%, but might get by with 2%.

Now think of the money they could have saved by giving me my 40 bucks.........

Of course, that's only if I go through with it. Maybe someone else will beat me to the punch. I wouldn't mind much as long as I got my 40 bucks.